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25 – MormonsandGays.org
3049:
“In an effort to encourage understanding and civil conversation about same-sex attraction, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has launched the website ‘Love One Another: A Discussion on Same-Sex Attraction,” (www.mormonsandgays.org).…
[Extracts from mormonsandgays.org website] Even though individuals do not choose to have such attractions, they do choose how to respond to them.…
No one fully knows the roots of same-sex attraction.… Attraction to those of the same sex, however, should not be viewed as a disease or illness.… Unlike in times past, the Church does not necessarily advise those with same-sex attraction to marry those of the opposite sex.…” (“New Church Website on Same-Sex Attraction Offers Love, Understanding and Hope,” LDS Newsroom, December 6, 2012)
2384:
“The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints launched a new website to discuss its position on gays and lesbians. The site, mormonsandgays.org, collects videos and documents of speeches given by church authorities on the topic of homosexuality.…
There is no change in the church’s position of what is morally right,’ the site reads. ‘But what is changing — and what needs to change — is to help church members respond sensitively and thoughtfully when they encounter same-sex attraction in their own families, among other church members or elsewhere.’…
Regarding the timing of the announcement, church spokesman Michael Purdy said, ‘Too often these types of big, important issues are dealt with in sound bites and often by individuals who do not have the complete picture of what the Church is doing. This website was produced over two years and puts the entire issue in context. The attention the church received during the presidential election period highlighted areas of church belief and practice that are poorly understood by the general public. We think additional context will help people better understand the church’s position on a number of issues. Over the next few weeks we expect to be publishing more resource materials that will help address other topics.’
The site does not necessarily advocate for the changing of sexual orientation, although it does prominently feature a well-known ‘reparative’ therapist who is in a mixed-orientation marriage, Ty Mansfield. He is a family and marriage therapist in Texas and he’s been featured in the past in church publications as an example of a mixed-orientation marriage and one possible path for gay and lesbian Mormons.
Although the site does not encourage gays and lesbians to pursue healthy same-sex relationships, Valerie Larabee, the executive director of the Utah Pride Center, said it is an important step forward.
‘I applaud any institution, religious or otherwise, for increasing the availability of potentially lifesaving resources to bridge the gap in human understanding, respect and acceptance of differences,’ Larabee said.…” (“Mormon Church launches website about homosexuality,” Q Salt Lake, December 6, 2012) [WAS THE DEVELOPMENT OF THIS SITE TRIGGERED BY PACKER’S OCTOBER 2010 TALK? WAS THE LAUNCH DELAYED UNTIL AFTER THE PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION?]
1331:
“‘When people have those [same-sex] desires and attractions our attitude is, “stay with us,”’ Elder D. Todd Christofferson of the church’s Quorum of the Twelve Apostles says in a video on the site. ‘I think that’s what God is saying: stay with me. And I think that’s what we want to say in the church: Stay with us, and let’s work together in friendship and commonality and brotherhood and sisterhood.’…” (Trudy Ring, “Mormon Church Launches LGBT-Focused Website,” Advocate, December 6, 2012)
2690:
“The LDS Church is not changing its tune about homosexuality, but it has launched a new website to alter the tone.
The site — unveiled Thursday and called ‘Love One Another: A Discussion on Same Sex Attraction’ — includes video clips of Mormon leaders as well as gay members and their families promoting compassion and understanding toward homosexuals, and encouraging everyone to be ‘disciples of Christ.’ Found at mormonsandgays.org, it also urges gay Mormons to stick with the faith.…
‘After the harshness and bitterness of [California’s] Proposition 8, [defining marriage as only between a man and a woman], the LDS Church has shown that its underlying principles of love and acceptance are present in this ongoing communication process,’ Dabakis says in a statement. ‘I salute leaders of the Mormon church and look forward to a continuing dialogue of respect and greater understanding.’…
‘Same-sex attraction is not a sin,’ the website emphasizes, ‘but acting on it is.’ Mormon doctrine decrees that sex should only be between a husband and a wife.…
On the question of inborn tendencies, Oaks says, ‘the church does not have a position on the causes of any of these susceptibilities or inclinations, including those related to same-gender attraction.’
Same-sex attraction is also ‘not an illness or a disease,’ LDS officials say in the new videos, noting that the church no longer encourages gay members to get married to someone of the opposite sex.
‘On this website we witness something that church leaders rarely do: Admit that we’ve done things wrong in the past,’ Spencer W. Clark, executive director of Mormons for Marriage Equality, says in a statement. ‘This is old news to gay children who were thrown out of their homes, spouses whose mixed-orientation marriages ended in disaster, or Mormons who felt so hopeless and persecuted that they were driven to suicide.’
The new site also doesn’t encourage Latter-day Saints to oppose legislation making gay marriage legal. Indeed, Dabakis notes the fact that the church ‘didn’t get involved in any of the four races [gay marriage initiatives] that were on the [November] ballot — not one volunteer, not one dollar — is evidence of this kind of change, and our community has changed dramatically, too.’
The new website has been in the works for more than two years, LDS Church spokesman Michael Purdy says in an introduction, and was prompted by misunderstanding of Mormonism during the recent presidential election.…” (Peggy Fletcher Stack, “New Mormon church website has softer tone on gays,” Salt Lake Tribune, December 6, 2012)
2670:
“‘The church has its doctrine,’ Debakis continued. ‘But at the core of Christian doctrine is love and acceptance and understanding. This website is the beginning of an education process that will allow Latter-day Saints all over the world to speak about LGBT issues and not hide the discussion.’
In a brief video on the website, Elder Dallin H. Oaks of the Quorum of the Twelve makes it clear that the doctrine of the church – that sexual activity should only occur between a man and a woman who are married – ‘has not changed and is not changing.’ But he also acknowledges that ‘there is so much that we don’t understand about this subject that we do well to stay with what we know from the revealed word of God.’…” (Joseph Walker, “’Stay with us,’ new LDS website urges gay Mormons,” Deseret News, December 7, 2012)
3052:
“The first thing that impressed me was the use of the word ‘gay’ in the Web site’s URL—the beauty along of putting the words ‘Mormons and gays’ together seemed to formalize a relationship.…” (Randall Thacker, “With new Latter-day Saint Web site, a gay Mormon moment,” Washington Post, December 11, 2012)
3933:
“But homosexual orientation still presents a dilemma for Mormons–if not in this life, then in the next. LDS theology holds that in order to gain access to the Celestial level of heaven (the highest of three levels) and to become gods themselves, Mormons must be married in a Temple ceremony where the couple is ‘sealed’ for eternity, according to verses 19-20 of the Doctrine and Covenants. Marriage is defined by the LDS Church as being between one man and one woman.
It’s not clear whether Mormons with same-sex attractions can achieve the Celestial level of heaven, or how they might do so. Will they need to be sealed to someone of the opposite sex in the afterlife? Will they want to? In response to questions from msnbc.com, Church spokesman Michael Purdy wrote:
The Church teaches that people who are attracted to individuals of the same sex, but stay faithful to the Church’s teachings, enjoy full fellowship in the Church including attending temples, and will receive all the blessings afforded to those who live the commandments of God.
While we don’t fully understand all that will take place after this life, we can be sure that a loving God knows how to bless everyone’s life, and that those who strive to live according to God’s commandments will not be denied any blessing.…” (Traci G. Lee, “For gay Mormons, increasing support—but no clear path to heaven,” MSNBC.com, December 12, 2012)
2714:
“No religion has fought harder against same-sex marriage than The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
In 2008, the church supplied as much as half the money and 90 percent of the early campaign volunteers to pass California’s Proposition 8. But this year, it ducked similar fights. And now it’s rethinking its advice about homosexuality. The Mormon case against gay marriage is beginning to collapse.
The latest sign is a new LDS website, mormonsandgays.org. The site affirms the church’s ban on gay sex but offers several concessions. First, it acknowledges homosexuality as a deeply ingrained condition, often impervious to change. More than a dozen people tell their stories on the site, emphasizing the depth and persistence of their feelings.…
Second, the site says same-sex attraction ‘should not be viewed as a disease.’ In fact, it presents as exemplars Mormons who embrace a homosexual identity. In one video, Ted, a convert, introduces himself: ‘I’m a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I’m also gay.’
In another video, Suzanne, a young woman raised in the church, says: ‘This is part of me, it is going to be a part of me, and I’m OK.’ Judy, an older woman with a gay child and two gay grandchildren, declares, ‘I can’t think of a group of people I esteem higher or love more than those who are openly gay and fully active in our church.’
In its text, the site concedes ‘our common needs for intimacy and companionship.’ It includes, without comment, testimonials from at least two people who seem to have rejected the LDS policy against gay romantic relationships.
But the church says it can go no further.…
Christofferson confesses that steering gays into straight marriages is ‘not always successful. Sometimes it’s been even disastrous.’ Those days are over, says the new site: ‘Unlike in times past, the Church does not necessarily advise those with same-sex attraction to marry those of the opposite sex.’
How, then, can a person with same-sex orientation fulfill God’s plan? And what reward can console her for a lifetime of imposed abstinence?
Here, the Mormons offer an unusual answer: ‘Faithful members whose circumstances do not allow them to receive the blessings of eternal marriage and parenthood in this life will receive all promised blessings in the eternities.’
In other words, you can marry in the next life. And, yes, this applies to homosexuals. You might be gay in this life, but you’ll be straight in the next one: ‘With an eternal perspective, a person’s attraction to the same sex can be addressed and borne as a mortal test. It should not be viewed as a permanent condition. … Though some people, including those resisting same-sex attraction, may not have the opportunity to marry a person of the opposite sex in this life, a just God will provide them with ample opportunity to do so in the next.’…
But if that’s true — if gays who can’t form sustainable straight marriages in this life can do so in the next — why not let them, for the time being, marry each other? Wouldn’t these marriages end at death, freeing each partner to create a heterosexual family in the life to come?…
This two-tiered policy gives Mormons an easy way to accept gay civil marriage while preserving eternal marriage as the preferred — and exclusively heterosexual — ideal. Indeed, the Mormon emphasis on getting hitched makes same-sex marriage all the more logical. As the church’s new site observes, ‘Sexual intimacy is a powerful and beautiful thing. For this very reason it should be treated with care, within the boundaries of commitment and responsibility.’…
If the stampede of public opinion toward same-sex marriage follows the course of civil rights, are you sure God’s voice won’t be heard again?…
But that message, meant for gays, is really about Mormons. They’re struggling with homosexuality and its place in a moral world. It’s a journey. Give them time.” (William Saletan, “Mormons make the case for gay marriage,” Salt Lake Tribune, December 12, 2012)
4059:
“The LDS church has published an online guide to assist bishops in dealing with Mormons ‘with same-sex attraction’ (SSA) and their families. The recommendations in the guide track concepts introduced last month in the church’s website MormonsAndGays.org.…
The strongest section of the guide is ‘Using Ward and Stake Resources.’ Here, bishops are instructed to avoid offering marriage, missionary service, or ‘radical therapy [that] will eliminate’ their ‘same-sex attraction.’…
The guide gets off to a rocky start with references to individuals with ‘same-sex attraction’ rather than ‘LGBT people’ or ‘gays and lesbians,’ terms most gay people prefer. The introduction mentions the ‘intense shame, unworthiness, and fear of rejection’ a lesbian or gay person may feel, without acknowledging that those feelings are frequently caused by the church itself and its members.
The guide refers to ‘unworthy actions,’ ‘temptation,’ and ‘triggers,’—words that denigrate any intimate same-gender contact, no matter how loving. A subsection on seeking professional help—ideally, the Guide states, from LDS Family Services—seems to reinforce negative stereotypes of LGBT people by associating same-sex attraction with ‘addictive behaviors, emotional health challenges, abuse, and other related issues.’ LGBT Mormons are counseled to develop ‘healthy, nonsexual, same-gender relationships,’ borrowing from now-discredited theories that homosexuality is caused by unsatisfactory past same-gender relationships.…” Edward Jones III, “Church Publishes Guide about ‘Same-Sex Attraction’ for Bishops,” Affirmation.org, January 20, 2013)
4314:
“[Paul Edwards, Chief Editor of the Deseret News] told me it was very important for me to get in to meet with Ally Isom (in charge of the MormonsAndGays 2.0 project)…
After getting to know each other a bit (Ally and I had one of the same Poli Sci profs at BYU), we got down to brass tacks discussing M&G 2.0. She told me that since the policy fiasco, the Church upped its funding for the project and asked for an expedited production. I made the case for including stories of individuals in same-sex relationships. Ally told me that there is extreme worry about including such stories and giving the impression of ‘sanction’ or ‘support’ for such relationships. I pointed out that Church rhetoric about love will come across rather hollow if the Church refuses to hear our stories. Ally didn’t give on that point, but she gave me her direct cell number and asked me to communicate with her regularly.” (John Gustav-Wrathall to Affirmation Board, December 8, 2015)
INTERVIEWS
Baker: There is actually a way to see when a website was registered. [David began to look online.]… Mormonsandgays.org was created February 19, 2010.
Prince: So it pre-dated Packer.
Baker: It pre-dated Packer. It was registered by Intellectual Reserve, Inc. [That is the Church’s intellectual property component.] So the concept and thought for it had to have started in early-2010. It probably went through approvals—speculating—because Packer was slapped down following his canonization run-around.…
So timing-wise, that was a post-Prop 8 backlash fix, and it likely got approvals because of Packer being pushed aside on this issue, in addition to the 2012 race. I think it was ready to go—off-the-record, I know it was ready to go in June of 2012.…
So they had mormonsandgays.org ready—maybe not final approval, but they had it basically ready in June of 2012.
Prince: And they sat on it for the same reasons they sat out of those four states.
Baker: Most likely. They waited, and mormonsandgays.org was released in November, 2012, right around Thanksgiving. They waited until after the election, because eyes were off Mormons then. It was a site meant for members; it wasn’t meant for the public. They weren’t trying to get press releases off it; they were trying to educate members.
(David Baker, July 27, 2014)
I did hear back from Elder Ballard. He emailed August 21, 2013, asking me to call him. During the call (I would have to look up the exact date), I took notes then wrote the following down immediately after the call:
{Greg — at that time, there was no link to M&G dot org from lds.org. I am told that there is a link now although I have not confirmed that}.
(Gina Crivello email correspondence with GAP, January 20, 2015)
Evans: Mormonsandgays.org came down a different track. It wasn’t through those of us who were talking with folks in the gay community; it was through the Media Division. Of course, at the top of that was Mike Otterson and conversations that went on there that I was not aware of.
(William Evans, January 31, 2015)
Gustav: My take on Ally Isom is that—all I could discuss with her was MormonsandGays 2.0, besides us just getting acquainted.
Prince: Is that in her portfolio?
Gustav: Yes. She is the head honcho overseeing that within Public Affairs. She obviously reports to Michael Otterson and Elder Christofferson and all of the others. She painted a very dismal picture for me of the nature of the church bureaucracy. It’s like a pyramid with a maze at each level of the pyramid.
Prince: And this is in general, not just this issue?
Gustav: Right. So I think she was trying to temper my expectations in terms of, “Oh, I’ve got Ally Isom’s ear now, so I can make sure that stories of folks in same-sex relationships can get into MormonsandGays 2.0.” She held firm on that, but my sense is that if somebody higher up the chain says this would be helpful, I’m guessing those doors could open. So I’m kind of feeling like it would be good to work the angle with Elder Christofferson if I can, and if I can make a case to him that the story of somebody like me, who is in a same-sex relationship and active in the Church, being supported and ministered to by his ward leaders, that there is benefit in having that story in MormonsandGays, he could probably make that happen. It also sounds like once they launch MormonsandGays, they envision a much more dynamic model for content on it. I think he told me that the Church as something like doubled its budget for this and has asked them to expedite the launch date. But my sense is that when that happens, it won’t be the final word. There is going to be the possibility to add new content and revise it in a more dynamic way.
(John Gustav-Wrathall, December 9, 2015)
Wendy: We met with Elder Christofferson before the Affirmation conference last year, and we thanked him for the Mormons and Gays website. I asked him, “Can it be promoted more? It’s a wonderful resource, but my local leaders only know about it because of us. It’s not talked about in General Conference, it’s not talked about in the Ensign, it’s just not talked about.” He said, “We have to tread carefully.” Then he smirked and said, “You know, we still get letters from people saying we should never have given blacks the priesthood.” I said, “What?” “Yes, we still have some old fashioned ideas.” I said, “What church do I belong to? I’m floored!”
(Wendy Montgomery, July 16, 2014)
Wendy: Tom Christofferson had told me that we have his brother, Elder Christofferson, to thank for that website. He was the one. It was his idea, it was his pet project, and he got it pushed through. Looking at the current Quorum of the Twelve, that was a small miracle.
Greg: And it was before Todd was over Public Affairs, which is also impressive.
Wendy: Wow. I didn’t even know that. I get confused by Elder Christofferson. When we meet with him privately, the things he says about growing up with a gay brother and how his parents handled it are some of the most beautiful, confirming, loving stories I have heard. I think, “Why can’t you share those stories in General Conference? Why can’t you put those on the website?” The website is a huge step forward for a very conservative church, but it still kind of problematic. There are things on it that I wish weren’t there.
Greg: And they have taken pains essentially to hide it.
Wendy: Yes.
Greg: Is it linked to lds.org?
Wendy: Now it does, but in a very roundabout, take-several-steps-to-find-it way.
Greg: Initially it was not?
Wendy: No. There was no link at all to it, and that was one thing we talked about the first time we met with him. We said, “The Church is brilliant at getting information to its people, quickly if it needs to. For example, on lds.org you see on the side of the home page all of the links to the other websites, but not to mormonsandgays.org. If it’s a church-approved resource, why isn’t it listed with the other ones? It’s never been talked about in General Conference. I have yet to see anything in the Ensign, or even a letter read over the pulpit by bishops or stake presidents—something to get it in front of the people.” Many people think the website was just a publicity thing to soften the blow of Prop 8.
Greg: Did he respond to your question?
Wendy: That’s when he said, “We really have to tread lightly on this.” It was when we asked him to speak about it in General Conference that he made the comment about “we still get letters from people saying we shouldn’t have given blacks the priesthood.” So he wasn’t saying, “Yes, we will. It’s coming.” There really wasn’t anything that he said or felt like he could tell us about what will be done about it.
I said, “Some people think it’s not even a church website, that it’s just some fake thing.” He kind of chuckled at that and said, “Well, we should at least get credit for the things we’ve done.” I thought, “Then talk about it!” So he didn’t share very much about why they did it or how it came to be.
Tom Christofferson had told me that we have his brother, Elder Christofferson, to thank for that website. He was the one. It was his idea, it was his pet project, and he got it pushed through. Looking at the current Quorum of the Twelve, that was a small miracle.
Greg: And it was before Todd was over Public Affairs, which is also impressive.
Wendy: Wow. I didn’t even know that. I get confused by Elder Christofferson. When we meet with him privately, the things he says about growing up with a gay brother and how his parents handled it are some of the most beautiful, confirming, loving stories I have heard. I think, “Why can’t you share those stories in General Conference? Why can’t you put those on the website?” The website is a huge step forward for a very conservative church, but it still kind of problematic. There are things on it that I wish weren’t there.
Greg: And they have taken pains essentially to hide it.
Wendy: Yes.
Greg: Is it linked to lds.org?
Wendy: Now it does, but in a very roundabout, take-several-steps-to-find-it way.
Greg: Initially it was not?
Wendy: No. There was no link at all to it, and that was one thing we talked about the first time we met with him. We said, “The Church is brilliant at getting information to its people, quickly if it needs to. For example, on lds.org you see on the side of the home page all of the links to the other websites, but not to mormonsandgays.org. If it’s a church-approved resource, why isn’t it listed with the other ones? It’s never been talked about in General Conference. I have yet to see anything in the Ensign, or even a letter read over the pulpit by bishops or stake presidents—something to get it in front of the people.” Many people think the website was just a publicity thing to soften the blow of Prop 8.
Greg: Did he respond to your question?
Wendy: That’s when he said, “We really have to tread lightly on this.” It was when we asked him to speak about it in General Conference that he made the comment about “we still get letters from people saying we shouldn’t have given blacks the priesthood.” So he wasn’t saying, “Yes, we will. It’s coming.” There really wasn’t anything that he said or felt like he could tell us about what will be done about it.
I said, “Some people think it’s not even a church website, that it’s just some fake thing.” He kind of chuckled at that and said, “Well, we should at least get credit for the things we’ve done.” I thought, “Then talk about it!” So he didn’t share very much about why they did it or how it came to be.
(Wendy Montgomery, March 14, 2015)
Prince: Is there a holder, in Public Affairs, of the LGBT portfolio?
Munson: There is.
Prince: It had been Michael Purdy when Bill Evans retired. But you’re saying that has been passed on now?
Munson: Yes, they brought in Ally Isom. Most people think she’s useless because she is not empowered, but she is excellent.
Prince: I have heard good things about her, and I’ve heard that she was put in charge of MormonsandGays.org 2.0.
Munson: She is in charge of it.
Prince: And I heard that after the debacle in November she was given a bigger budget and a mandate to move more quickly with 2.0. Is that correct?
Munson: That’s true—and then it was taken away about four weeks ago. Back to the old plan, because the Brethren think that issue is over.
Prince: Back up just a little bit. This is news.
Munson: The Brethren believe that the controversy surrounding the changes in Handbook 1 is over, and so there is no need to accelerate MormonsandGays.org 2.0. So it’s back to their original timetable. They are so blind.
Prince: So are you saying that what they did was to put 2.0 back on a slow track, or did they just spike it?
Munson: They put it back on a slow track.
Prince: Did they take it out of Ally’s hands?
Munson: No, she still has it.
(Shipley Munson, March 2, 2016)
Ryan: Bill [Evans] told me that he thought that mormonsandgays.org was generated as a result of the work that I did with the Mormons.
(Caitlin Ryan, March 15, 2015)
Prince: I’m surprised that they got mormonsandgays.org up and with the wording that it has, with Packer still alive.
Raynes: As you recall, two years ago Packer had to go change his conference speech. So I think it is getting discussed more openly, and he may have to back down.
(Marybeth Raynes, April 7, 2013)
Prince: You talk a lot about 2006 and “God Loveth His Children.” How did we get from that point and the Oaks/Wickman interview, where they at least opened the door to biology, to the mormonsandgays.org website where they flat-out admitted that it’s biology by saying “this is not a choice”? How did we make that transition?
Schow: I think they would probably parse that. They would probably say, “Well, to say it’s not a choice doesn’t mean that it’s necessarily biology.”
Prince: Still, I think they took a step from the Oaks/Wickman interview to the mormonsandgays.org website.
Schow: They certainly did take some steps. I don’t think the interview is as clear as “it’s not a choice.”
Prince: I agree.
Schow: So they did move further. Let me tell you what I know about the website. It was Quentin Cook who sent somebody around to do all those interviews that were posted on the website. Certainly it involved Public Affairs, but Cook was a major force behind it. I really think that Gary Watts’s influence on him had a fair bit do to with Cook deciding that something needed to be done. I don’t know who exactly the movers and shakers behind the website were, but Quentin Cook is certainly one of them. I think it probably came out of that coalition that got together around 2006 and 2007.
(Ron Schow, January 15, 2015)
Schow: I can tell you a little bit about what’s going on with the committee for the mormonsandgays.org website. One of the things that happened, that Rod told me about, is that they had been moving pretty slowly on it, and they are making quite a different website than what they had before. A great deal of it is going to be video.
After this new policy was announced, somebody came to Ally and said, “We need this out right away. We need damage control. So we’re going to give you some more money, and we want the first part of it out in January or February.” So they are pushing hard to try to get it out, and I heard they are filming every day to try to get this thing up and out by January or February. So there is a sign that the apostles are trying to do something.
Prince: It shows that they stepped into something deep, and they are trying to clean it off. It’s full-fledged damage control.
Schow: Rod said what they are going to do on the website this time is to have a couple of young, celibate gay men, and one of the things they are going to say is, “This is why I am staying in the Church for now.” For now. He was making a point to tell me that they are not promising they can do this for their whole lives. I don’t know whether that will play out, but that’s what he told me. He said what they are going to do is tell their story. Then, you’re going to be able to click on another link, and their bishop will tell how he is supporting him. Then you can click on another link, and a member of their family will tell how they are supporting this person. And then, it will click on another link and a friend will tell how they are supporting them and helping them to stay in the Church. It’s all about staying in the Church. Apparently those will be the first two that will come out, and they are trying to get those out in January or February. Then, by the middle of the year, they hope to have a couple of representatives from mixed-orientation marriages with the same pattern. And by the end of the year, maybe Rod’s story will be one of the stories about older people who have come back to the Church and are trying to live celibately.
The organization there is quite interesting. Ally reports to Michael Otterson. She has an assistant, and then under him are three other people: a producer, an artist and somebody else. Two of those three are gay, and one of them, at least, came out after he was appointed to be the art person on that team. He has been very friendly to me, and I’m hopeful to have a visit with him soon. His name is Ricardo. He has six kids, but he is out now as being gay, as is Evan Randall, who is also on the committee.
They made an attempt to get a couple of voices from gay relationships, and the apostles said no. They intend to keep asking, but that is the answer for now.
(Ron Schow, December 23, 2015)
Wendy: Then he [Todd Christofferson] said, in that interview in 2014, “We are redoing the website—mormonsandgays.org 2.0. We would love any critique or suggestions you have, but please don’t be offended if we don’t use all of your suggestions.” If they used every suggestion that I wanted to give them, I might be excommunicated! He said, “Go home and review the website, and then you can send me some thoughts in an email.” I said, “I have a suggestion right now.” He raised his eyebrows, and I didn’t know if that was too uppity of me, or if was just surprised. I said, “There are no youth on that website. It is never discussed anywhere there that they can know at a young age, that they don’t have to have a sexual experience to know that they are gay. That was really difficult for my son and for us, because we saw multiple LDS therapists, and all of our leaders, and my family and close friends—every single person said, ‘There is no such thing as a gay teenager. They are too young to know. They are just confused. It’s a phase. It’s the popular thing to say that they are gay. This will go away, with increased righteousness.’ They said all of these things, and it made things so much harder for my son. I remember having a conversation with him where he said, ‘Everyone is saying that I’m not gay, but I don’t know if I am—and if I’m not gay, what am I? What is wrong with me? Why am I not like every other boy if this isn’t what it is?’ We are telling them that their lived experiences, what they are going through and feeling deeply, in the core of themselves, isn’t right and isn’t true, and they are just confused, and they don’t really know themselves. It’s super-damaging.”
(Wendy Montgomery, March 14, 2015)
Wendy: Do you know who Ally Isom is?
Greg: Yes.
Wendy: She called me on Friday, out of the blue. I had heard her name before, but I didn’t really know who she was. She told me that she is the point person over the content of MormonsandGays 2.0. Is that what you know of her as well?
Greg: Yes.
Wendy: She said, “You have the ear of the gay community. What do we need to put in MormonsandGays 2.0 that is going to be helpful? We realize that, unfortunately, doctrine will likely not change in our lifetime; but working within the constraints of the doctrine, what can we say on that website that will be helpful?” I said, “I don’t know what you can put on that website as long as The Policy is still in place. Whatever you have on that website, no matter how wonderful it is, is going to feel like a Band-Aid on a broken arm. There is nothing you can do that is going to make this a loving church while that is still there.” She said, “Yes, and we are really struggling with that. We were supposed to have this rolled out six months ago, but The Policy has delayed everything.”
We ended up having a two-hour conversation about what I thought they could put on there. I was surprised at how liberal and progressive she was, to have that high a position as a church employee. She said she has a gay brother-in-law, and she has supported every LGBT inclusion thing that came up, including gay marriage. I was like, “Don’t tell the leaders of the church, or you’re going to get fired.”
She said she’s going the rounds with the Quorum of the Twelve because she wants to have some peer-reviewed, academic research posted there, showing the biological component of being gay, and that it’s not a choice. After talking about it for months they finally said, “No, we can’t do that.” I said, “Why not? That would be amazing!” She said, “Think about how far down the rabbit hole that would take people. If we are recognizing that this isn’t a choice and if science is telling us that they are coming this way to us, how in the world could we deny them any blessings or anything the gospel has to offer?”
Greg: Yes, and that’s exactly the right question.
Wendy: I know! I was like, “Ally!” She said, “I know, Wendy. I know. It makes no sense. But recognize the vast generational gap that we are dealing with. So many of the Quorum of the Twelve still think of the word ‘gay’ as an adjective, when we know it as identity. They don’t even like the name MormonsandGays. They want to change the name of the website.” I said, “I had heard that the 2.0 version was going to be MormonandGay.org. I like that so much better, dropping those two s’s.” She said, “We still debating that. A lot of people want to take ‘gay’ totally out of the title.” I said, “Ally, that’s a step backwards. That’s not 2.0. That’s 0.5.” She said, “I know.”
She says she presents something to the Quorum of the Twelve and they all have a knee-jerk reaction, hate it, totally fight against it. Then she goes back in a week, presents the same thing in a slightly different way, and they react pretty much the same way, but not as forcefully. She said, “It takes four or five times for each point for them to think about it and get their heads around it.” No wonder this website is taking so long to get out, when every single point takes five or six meetings to get through.
Greg: I hope she stays there. There was speculation that since she was passed over for the directorship, she might leave.
Wendy: Really? Who is above her?
Greg: The new director is Rick Turley.
Wendy: That’s such a good move.
Ally is also over women’s issues and racial issues, from a public affairs standpoint. She asked for those as well. I said, “Ally, you just chose the three biggest problems the church has. Why didn’t you just choose one?” She said, “Because they are so important.”
(Wendy Montgomery, July 14, 2016)